View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0008163 | Taler | other | public | 2024-01-21 15:12 | 2024-12-13 19:15 |
| Reporter | Stefan | Assigned To | Stefan | ||
| Priority | high | Severity | text | Reproducibility | N/A |
| Status | closed | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | git (master) | ||||
| Target Version | 0.14 | Fixed in Version | 0.14 | ||
| Summary | 0008163: Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [September] | ||||
| Description | Goal: Be absolutely sure about legal integrity of Terms of service and Privacy policy. Work in progress with iteration cycles. All versions are in this folder: https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/tree/contrib Pre-launch task #32 for SK, BA, to be verified by Michael and Christian. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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We have the eNetzBon Terms of Service in German and reStructuredText format at /exchange/contrib/exchange-tos-netzbon-v0.rst respectively the Swiss Sandbox Terms of Service at /exchange/contrib/exchange-tos-v0.rst - see https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/tree/contrib/exchange-tos-netzbon-v0.rst?id=1c6d04f519a130f67ea6ef7c98ed4cbcfcee7611 https://git.taler.net/ resp. exchange.git/tree/contrib/exchange-tos-v0.rst?id=1c6d04f519a130f67ea6ef7c98ed4cbcfcee7611 All files have been formatted in RST (reStructuredText) through https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=1c6d04f519a130f67ea6ef7c98ed4cbcfcee7611 and seem to work according to Florian and Sebastian at least locally. |
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Conversion of Michael's .docx file to reStructuredText (RST) for TOPS' Terms of Service into the git --> /exchange/contrib/exchange-tos-tops-v0.rst. The text has to be read, typos and grammar should be rectified. Deeper legal comprehension is postponed to forthcoming review. |
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The draft is in the git now at /exchange/contrib/exchange-tos-tops-v0.rst - The original text has NOT been altered in any way. NO rectifications, NO changes! - HTML links were left out (as they were pointing to Twint web pages anyways). - Underscores needed to be set between quotation marks to avoid RST hickups: "_____" - There might be parsing problems with some special characters like quotation marks. Please test out! |
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Next step: Insert into the draft text all missing elements from the existing NetzBon Terms of Service draft. This will be marked as "NETZBON-NEU". |
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Terms of service in relation to NetzBon have been added to the existing RST file (/exchange/contrib/exchange-tos-tops-v0.rst) in between the tags [NETZBON NEU]. |
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Step 3) Wo gibt es aehnliche Paragraphen mit rechtlich substantiellen Unterschieden zwischen Netzbon und Michael? Die Unterschiede als *Kommentar* unter den Paragraphen schreiben. --> In brackets [NETZBON-KOMMENTAR] added one important comment for the NetzBon TOS to be discussed (was on the Sandstorm pad but no discussion evolved). |
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Step 4) Wo siehst du Sachen in Paragraphen von Michael die du fuer TOPS fuer voellig falsch (oder unnoetig) haelst? Wieder als Kommentar unter die betroffenen Paragraphen schreiben. --> In the brackets [KOMMENTAR SK] I added my comments and formulations. Commit to git: https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=1602dd953953011ab95ecdc3b21998b8ecaf5d3c |
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* Step 1: Michael's draft for TOPS' Terms of Service converted to reStructuredText (RST) = https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=0ddab477708740ac1f930e68c0f24ab76dde7a3e (sorry for the crippled 1.11/1.12 line break) * Step 2: Adding TOS in relation to NetzBon between [NETZBON NEU] = https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=6cbed113e2686a4b1d9a8ecc10d734e9c0ae86b9 * Step 3: Adding one comment in relation to NetzBon TOS between [NETZBON-KOMMENTAR] = https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=30ee1a12ba0a963be4c699ce14a4db727935f333 * Step 4: Adding my own comments and recommendations between [KOMMENTAR SK] = https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=1602dd953953011ab95ecdc3b21998b8ecaf5d3c These four steps took me 30 hours of work (plus some hours of reading our documentation on TOPS/Finma/VQF and the TWINT Terms of service and their Privacy policy). Next steps [and their estimated termination]: 5) Christian's comments [end of April] 6) Florian's and Leon's comments [preferably at the beginning of May] 7) Consensus meeting to define the *German* version [preferably around May 15] 8) Again Michael's review [preferably end of May 15] 9) Translations into FR/EN/IT (my Mantis ticket 0008164: Translation of Terms of service and Privacy policy to German, French, Italian → 5.1 in the NGI TALER project work package 5) [preferably end of June] |
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8) Again Michael's review [preferably end of May 15] --> should read [preferably end of May] |
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Hi Stefan! Bin die ganze AGB jetzt durch. Meine Vorschlaege sind alle mit CG markiert, haeufig Zustimmung zu deinen Aenderungen. Bitte die Aenderungen wo wir ganz klar beide einverstanden sind durchziehen (inkl. *Loeschungen*, ist ja ein Git!) so das wirklich nur noch 1) Unklarheiten (meiner Kommentare) und 2) Differenzen (SK vs. CG nicht einverstanden) und 3) Probleme (wo du nicht sicher bist, wie der Text formuliert werden koennte, auch wenn 1&2 nicht zutreffen) als Kommentare uebrigbleiben. Danke! |
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For those folks who want to see CG's changes and comments committed to the git in web view: https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=09e315eedb73adc9fa7d11061728cd433bee9f31 |
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Mit https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=edacdf609bac2739811d6cd33ca1cbafd0f7573a erfolgte die Reduzierung auf die noch offenen ungeklärten bzw. konfligierenden Punkte (8 an der Zahl). Meine Eingaben stehen zwischen den Klammern [KOMMENTAR SK], leider kommt es zu einer unzusammenhängenden Darstellung der Änderungen, daher bitte immer etwas weiter nach unten scrollen, wo der zugehörige Text steht. Damit übergebe ich den AGB-Entwurf wieder an Christian (@grothoff) zur weiteren Diskussion. Nach erfolgter Einigung sind dann Leon und Florian mit ihrer Lektüre und ggf. Änderungen dran. Ein Konsens sollte Mitte Mai getroffen werden, ein weiterer Review geschieht durch Michael vorzugsweise bis Ende Mai. Alle Änderungen im Git sind nachvollziehbar (siehe https://bugs.gnunet.org/view.php?id=8163#c22242). Den Überblick über alles behalte ich. |
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https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=584ccce5043d20662c32fa306f465ae9df3cfa72 added again the context to the eight points for discussion. |
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https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=ab46734078f454bb88f01020d1e141281ce6d893 changes some sub-section headers resp. sub-sub-section headers and settles most conflicting points. Still, the term "Zahldienstleistungen" in the sub-section header '1.2. Zugang zu den TALER Zahldienstleistungen' needs to be discussed. It's either "Zahlungsdienstleistungen" or - more generalized - "Dienstleistungen". The NEXT step is to have the full Terms of service again in the git. This will be the completely rectified and orthographically correct version displaying the full content. We have to be consistent with RST tags, please: HEADER ======= 1. Section ------------- 1.1. Sub-section ~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1.1.1 Sub-sub-section ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As we have sub-sub-sections only under points 1.4 and 1.12 we can use tildes there - but not dashes as they are reserved for section headers only. See https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/user/rst/quickstart.html for RST conventions. |
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The full version of TOPS Terms of service is again in the git. Should be free of mistakes and typos. After review by CG the document passes on to Florian and Leon, after their comments to Michael (in plain text format as agreed upon). |
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For those who want to see latest changes in the ToS full version committed to the git in web view: https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=8cd53161c32b488d542f796d5dd1b8d4f9a03cc6 |
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My latest changes (see https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=8e80876aee11fbbd197c2959731e88fc8d2b5f20 for web view): - corrected typos and grammar - eliminated double spaces - deprecated spaces at the end of each line (which is the normal editor behavior, hopefully this will also fulfill the RST convention...) - changed tildes to hyphens for marking headers of sections - changed 'P2P' to 'Peer-to-Peer' - accepted the term 'e-CHF' (although I recommend the better looking 'eCHF' - is this to be discussed yet?) - inserted "auch" in the phrase "TOPS kann weitere Aufladeoptionen einführen oder *auch* bestehende Mechanismen nicht mehr anbieten." and changed "Ladung" to "Aufladung" in the next phrase - inserted the word "fehlerhaften" in the phrase "Nutzer halten TOPS schadlos für Schäden oder Verluste, die TOPS aufgrund der Nichteinhaltung dieser AGB oder gesetzlicher Vorgaben, aufgrund fehlerhafter oder unvollständiger Angaben der Nutzer oder der *fehlerhaften* Ausführung von Anweisungen entstehen." - inserted "in der Schweiz" in the phrase "Die Nutzer von Taler-Wallets können das Guthaben in diesen jederzeit an Bankkonten *in der Schweiz* zurücküberweisen lassen und so das Guthaben saldieren." - My comment on "(Wobei Nutzer bzw. Begünstigte mit einem Wohnsitz ausserhalb der Schweiz bereits gegen diese AGB verstossen, da TOPS seine Dienste nur für Schweizer Einwohner und Firmen anbietet.): Swiss citizens can additionally have a place of residence abroad, like e.g. in Liechtenstein, but we would like to have potential disputes settled rather in Biel than elsewhere, right? - the first line of the Terms of service reads now: "Diese Allgemeinen Geschäftsbedingungen (nachfolgend **AGB**) der Taler Operations AG regeln die Rechte und Pflichten von Nutzern und Zahlungsempfängern (Begünstigten) des angebotenen Zahlungsdiensts." The expression "Korrekte Taler-Wallets" is still to be discussed. What does that mean that a wallet is "correct"? Correctly installed, maintained or updated, working, functioning...? Is there a possibility of an incorrect, corrupt or not properly installed Taler wallet? (For those who want to see Christian's former changes in the ToS full version: https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=e1be22a63d631dbe63057d219b1d28c4a9163226) |
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Text is AFAIK with Florian & Leon for review at this point. |
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Letzte Änderungen von meiner Seite habe ich gerade eingepflegt und ins Git gestellt (https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=d20eac37d3729e43401cf594b9a7af1e23e2594e). Es sollte auch die Erzeugung von sauber gerenderten AGB in den Wallet-Apps damit funktionieren. |
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Text is now pending at Michael since a few days. Waiting for his response ... ... and still we have some time left for quality's sake. |
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Response from Michael received, he is still taking some time commenting on the text, this time directly within the plain text file that uses to be the technical source file in RST format. No word document. Waiting for his feedback and comments. |
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Michael has only one slight remark (which is a good sign that we are nearing the final version of the ToS for the Swiss Sandbox implementation): Add the following phrase to the first paragraph of the Terms: Mit der Nutzung von GNU Taler akzeptiert der Nutzer automatisch diese AGB. |
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TOPS ToS v0 can be deemed final (see https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/tree/contrib/exchange-tos-tops-v0.rst) after the latest changes. I inserted MW's single phrase in the first paragraph and gave an enumeration to "Sorgfaltspflichten und andere Pflichten der Nutzer" (Due diligence and other obligations of users) with 4 enumerated lines. Applying this enumeration was not only improving the clear comprehension of user duties and obligations but also poses a necessity for rst2pdf to render a PDF without any warnings. I recommend to leave it as is. The file in RST format now renders correctly and is prepared for deployment. A translation to French has to follow up and will most probably to be conducted by Emmanuel who will get a Mantis ticket assigned by me soon. |
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Changed MW phrase again after consultation: Mit der Nutzung von GNU Taler akzeptiert der Nutzer automatisch diese AGB. --> Mit der Nutzung des Zahlungsdiensts akzeptieren die Nutzer automatisch diese AGB. |
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My latest lessons learned with RST (ReStructured Text) files that get parsed to generate a PDF (e.g. by rst2pdf): 1. Strings beginning with an asterisk to indicate a point of a bullet list should be running over one single line and NOT have a line break. 2. Strings can have text marked for italics with *italics* or bold with **bold** only ONCE per line. This so-called "inline markup" cannot be accompanied by another asterisk in the same line. |
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French translation ASAP to be performed by Emmanuel - I assign this ticket to him after having informed about the task via email message. |
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TOPS ToS versions are available now in German, English and French. https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/tree/contrib?id=80570d423916695d20701b4d4a70aefaca0bfcbe contains Terms of service documents for TOPS, NetzBon and BFH which are all fully RST format compliant and nicely render PDFs as like they should do. To be done: Privacy policy translation to German and French. Work in progress... |
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French and English versions are about to be reviewed (asked BA and EB to take over this task). |
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An den Verein Soziale Ökonomie gesendete Entwurfsfassung der eNetzBon-AGB (Version vom 21.8.2024, zu finden auch im Netz auf https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/tree/contrib/exchange-tos-netzbon-v0.rst): Neu ist in dieser nur ein einziger hinzugefügter Satz im Einleitungstext, den aufzunehmen uns unser Jurist geraten hat: "Mit der Nutzung des Zahlungsdiensts akzeptieren die Nutzer automatisch diese AGB." - Dies wird aus meiner Sicht die letzte Empfehlung für Änderungen am AGB-Entwurf für eNetzBon sein. Die vorherige Ergänzung war für Version 24.6.24. |
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Pushed after Emmanuel's final review last changes to the git (https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=d0e32066c7388eee44a5d435107b9885d4152c5a) and as such the French TOPS Terms of service are accomplished. |
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Dear Stefan (+Christian), Please see attached file with my comments. I added Christian, as I have some questions that need his input. One observation I'd like to bring to your attention is that is it Terms of Service or GTC? I believe there are differences in terms of scope, audinece, and language. Could you please clarify? I'll update the ticket with the file and the content of my email. Berna |
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After some fine-tuning with Berna and Emmanuel the Terms of service are complete in German, English and French, currently to be reviewed on the fly by Michael. |
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Michael has no comments to the terms of service anymore. This means the TOPS Terms of service in English, German and French can be deemed ready for getting published after CG's approval. @grothoff, please be so kind and skim through the Terms of service for a final approval from your side. Here are my last three annotations for you to consider: 1. The English, German and French versions have absolutely identical content and a single discrepancy in one English paragraph header (BA recommends this specific wording in regard to common (US) Terms of Service / General Terms and Conditions): - Legal and regulatory requirements - Allgemeine Mitwirkungspflichten - Obligations générales de coopération 2. We replaced "correct Taler wallets" by " Taler wallets compliant to the GNU Taler protocol" at the following two paragraphs: - Taler wallets compliant to the GNU Taler protocol will inform users about fee changes before they withdraw new tokens. - Mit dem GNU Taler-Protokoll konforme Taler-Wallets informieren Nutzer über Gebührenänderungen vor dem Bezug von neuen Wertmarken. - Les portefeuilles Taler conformes au protocole GNU Taler informent les utilisateurs des changements de frais avant que de nouveaux jetons ne soient retirés. - Taler wallets compliant to the GNU Taler protocol inform users about changes before new tokens are withdrawn. - Mit dem GNU Taler-Protokoll konforme Taler-Wallets informieren Nutzer über Änderungen vor dem Bezug von neuen Wertmarken. - Les portefeuilles Taler conformes au protocole GNU Taler informent les utilisateurs des changements avant que de nouveaux jetons ne soient retirés. 3. Finally, the TOPS ToS now reference the latest Swiss laws on data protection: - TOPS complies with all applicable anti-money laundering (AML) and know-your-customer (KYC) regulations. TOPS will ensure that all personal data is processed in accordance with Swiss privacy laws, including the new Swiss Data Protection Act (nFADP) and the Ordinance on Data Protection (DPO). - TOPS hält sich an alle geltenden Gesetze zur Bekämpfung der Geldwäsche (AML) und zur Feststellung wirtschaftlich Berechtigter. TOPS stellt sicher, dass alle privaten Daten im Einklang mit den Schweizerischen Datenschutzbestimmungen, insbesondere dem Schweizer Gesetz über den Datenschutz (revDSG) und der Verordnung über den Datenschutz (DSV), behandelt werden. - TOPS se conforme à toutes les réglementations applicables en matière de lutte contre le blanchiment d'argent (AML) et de connaissance des bénéficiaires effectifs. TOPS veillera à ce que toutes les données personnelles soient traitées conformément aux lois suisses sur la protection des données, y compris la nouvelle loi suisse sur la protection des données (nLPD) et l'ordonnance sur la protection des données (OPDo). |
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Looks good, let's consider this done! |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2024-01-21 15:12 | Stefan | New Issue | |
| 2024-01-21 15:12 | Stefan | Status | new => assigned |
| 2024-01-21 15:12 | Stefan | Assigned To | => Stefan |
| 2024-01-21 15:38 | Christian Grothoff | Relationship added | child of 0008164 |
| 2024-01-21 15:42 | Christian Grothoff | Severity | major => text |
| 2024-02-11 12:41 | Stefan | Summary | Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) => Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [March-April] |
| 2024-02-11 12:41 | Stefan | Description Updated | |
| 2024-03-03 10:22 | Stefan | Note Added: 0021621 | |
| 2024-04-02 19:22 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022087 | |
| 2024-04-02 21:09 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022088 | |
| 2024-04-02 21:11 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022089 | |
| 2024-04-10 21:50 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022199 | |
| 2024-04-11 09:16 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022206 | |
| 2024-04-15 13:44 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022241 | |
| 2024-04-15 14:04 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022242 | |
| 2024-04-15 14:26 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022244 | |
| 2024-04-15 14:27 | Stefan | Summary | Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [March-April] => Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [end of May] |
| 2024-04-15 14:32 | Stefan | Note Edited: 0022242 | |
| 2024-04-15 19:21 | Stefan | Assigned To | Stefan => Christian Grothoff |
| 2024-04-16 00:15 | Christian Grothoff | Note Added: 0022256 | |
| 2024-04-16 00:15 | Christian Grothoff | Assigned To | Christian Grothoff => Stefan |
| 2024-04-16 11:05 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022260 | |
| 2024-05-06 09:37 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022356 | |
| 2024-05-06 09:38 | Stefan | Assigned To | Stefan => Christian Grothoff |
| 2024-05-06 13:25 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022359 | |
| 2024-05-10 07:33 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022380 | |
| 2024-05-14 10:38 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022414 | |
| 2024-05-14 10:45 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022416 | |
| 2024-05-17 09:02 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022437 | |
| 2024-05-25 23:59 | Christian Grothoff | Assigned To | Christian Grothoff => Florian Dold |
| 2024-05-25 23:59 | Christian Grothoff | Note Added: 0022469 | |
| 2024-07-03 12:31 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022784 | |
| 2024-07-03 12:37 | Stefan | Summary | Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [end of May] => Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [July] |
| 2024-07-26 00:02 | Christian Grothoff | Target Version | 1.0 => 0.13 |
| 2024-07-29 20:54 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022868 | |
| 2024-07-29 20:54 | Stefan | Assigned To | Florian Dold => Stefan |
| 2024-08-02 13:11 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022897 | |
| 2024-08-16 08:56 | Stefan | Note Added: 0022985 | |
| 2024-08-20 09:19 | Stefan | Note Added: 0023005 | |
| 2024-08-20 09:20 | Stefan | Summary | Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [July] => Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [September] |
| 2024-08-21 16:46 | Stefan | Note Added: 0023021 | |
| 2024-08-21 16:46 | Stefan | File Added: exchange-tos-tops-v0-2.pdf | |
| 2024-08-21 16:50 | Stefan | Note Edited: 0022380 | |
| 2024-08-21 22:18 | Stefan | Note Added: 0023025 | |
| 2024-08-22 14:31 | Stefan | Note Added: 0023028 | |
| 2024-08-22 14:31 | Stefan | Assigned To | Stefan => Emmanuel |
| 2024-08-22 17:56 | Christian Grothoff | Product Version | 1.0 => git (master) |
| 2024-08-22 17:56 | Christian Grothoff | Target Version | 0.13 => 0.14 |
| 2024-09-02 22:03 | Stefan | Note Added: 0023142 | |
| 2024-09-03 10:35 | Stefan | Note Added: 0023147 | |
| 2024-09-10 12:31 | Stefan | Note Added: 0023225 | |
| 2024-09-11 15:16 | Stefan | Assigned To | Emmanuel => Stefan |
| 2024-09-11 15:19 | Stefan | Note Added: 0023239 | |
| 2024-09-11 15:26 | Stefan | Description Updated | |
| 2024-09-13 10:01 | bernaalp | Additional Information Updated | |
| 2024-09-13 10:02 | bernaalp | Additional Information Updated | |
| 2024-09-13 10:02 | bernaalp | Note Added: 0023279 | |
| 2024-09-13 10:02 | bernaalp | File Added: TOPS_General Terms and Conditions of Taler Operations AG.odt | |
| 2024-09-13 10:03 | bernaalp | Note Edited: 0023279 | |
| 2024-09-20 09:50 | Stefan | Note Added: 0023334 | |
| 2024-10-08 19:15 | Stefan | Note Added: 0023484 | |
| 2024-10-08 19:17 | Stefan | Assigned To | Stefan => Christian Grothoff |
| 2024-10-08 20:21 | Christian Grothoff | Note Added: 0023485 | |
| 2024-10-08 20:21 | Christian Grothoff | Assigned To | Christian Grothoff => Stefan |
| 2024-10-08 20:21 | Christian Grothoff | Status | assigned => resolved |
| 2024-10-08 20:21 | Christian Grothoff | Resolution | open => fixed |
| 2024-10-08 20:21 | Christian Grothoff | Fixed in Version | => 0.14 |
| 2024-12-13 19:15 | Christian Grothoff | Status | resolved => closed |
