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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0008163Talerotherpublic2024-05-25 23:59
ReporterStefan Assigned ToFlorian Dold  
PriorityhighSeveritytextReproducibilityN/A
Status assignedResolutionopen 
Product Version1.0 
Target Version1.0 
Summary0008163: Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [end of May]
DescriptionGoal: Be absolutely sure about legal integrity of Terms of service and Privacy policy.
Work in progress with iteration cycles.
A full day meeting in Zurich would make most sense.
Pre-launch task #32 for SK, BA, to be verified by Michael and Christian.
TagsNo tags attached.

Relationships

child of 0008164 assignedStefan Translation of Terms of service and Privacy policy to German, French, Italian [end of June] 

Activities

Stefan

2024-03-03 10:22

developer   ~0021621

We have the eNetzBon Terms of Service in German and reStructuredText format at /exchange/contrib/exchange-tos-netzbon-v0.rst respectively the Swiss Sandbox Terms of Service at /exchange/contrib/exchange-tos-v0.rst - see https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/tree/contrib/exchange-tos-netzbon-v0.rst?id=1c6d04f519a130f67ea6ef7c98ed4cbcfcee7611 https://git.taler.net/ resp. exchange.git/tree/contrib/exchange-tos-v0.rst?id=1c6d04f519a130f67ea6ef7c98ed4cbcfcee7611

All files have been formatted in RST (reStructuredText) through https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=1c6d04f519a130f67ea6ef7c98ed4cbcfcee7611 and seem to work according to Florian and Sebastian at least locally.

Stefan

2024-04-02 19:22

developer   ~0022087

Conversion of Michael's .docx file to reStructuredText (RST) for TOPS' Terms of Service into the git --> /exchange/contrib/exchange-tos-tops-v0.rst.
The text has to be read, typos and grammar should be rectified. Deeper legal comprehension is postponed to forthcoming review.

Stefan

2024-04-02 21:09

developer   ~0022088

The draft is in the git now at /exchange/contrib/exchange-tos-tops-v0.rst
- The original text has NOT been altered in any way. NO rectifications, NO changes!
- HTML links were left out (as they were pointing to Twint web pages anyways).
- Underscores needed to be set between quotation marks to avoid RST hickups: "_____"
- There might be parsing problems with some special characters like quotation marks. Please test out!

Stefan

2024-04-02 21:11

developer   ~0022089

Next step: Insert into the draft text all missing elements from the existing NetzBon Terms of Service draft.
This will be marked as "NETZBON-NEU".

Stefan

2024-04-10 21:50

developer   ~0022199

Terms of service in relation to NetzBon have been added to the existing RST file (/exchange/contrib/exchange-tos-tops-v0.rst) in between the tags [NETZBON NEU].

Stefan

2024-04-11 09:16

developer   ~0022206

Step 3) Wo gibt es aehnliche Paragraphen mit rechtlich substantiellen Unterschieden zwischen Netzbon und Michael? Die Unterschiede als *Kommentar* unter den Paragraphen schreiben. --> In brackets [NETZBON-KOMMENTAR] added one important comment for the NetzBon TOS to be discussed (was on the Sandstorm pad but no discussion evolved).

Stefan

2024-04-15 13:44

developer   ~0022241

Step 4) Wo siehst du Sachen in Paragraphen von Michael die du fuer TOPS fuer voellig falsch (oder unnoetig) haelst? Wieder als Kommentar unter die betroffenen Paragraphen schreiben. --> In the brackets [KOMMENTAR SK] I added my comments and formulations. Commit to git:
https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=1602dd953953011ab95ecdc3b21998b8ecaf5d3c

Stefan

2024-04-15 14:04

developer   ~0022242

Last edited: 2024-04-15 14:32

* Step 1: Michael's draft for TOPS' Terms of Service converted to reStructuredText (RST) = https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=0ddab477708740ac1f930e68c0f24ab76dde7a3e (sorry for the crippled 1.11/1.12 line break)

* Step 2: Adding TOS in relation to NetzBon between [NETZBON NEU] = https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=6cbed113e2686a4b1d9a8ecc10d734e9c0ae86b9

* Step 3: Adding one comment in relation to NetzBon TOS between [NETZBON-KOMMENTAR] = https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=30ee1a12ba0a963be4c699ce14a4db727935f333

* Step 4: Adding my own comments and recommendations between [KOMMENTAR SK] = https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=1602dd953953011ab95ecdc3b21998b8ecaf5d3c

These four steps took me 30 hours of work (plus some hours of reading our documentation on TOPS/Finma/VQF and the TWINT Terms of service and their Privacy policy).

Next steps [and their estimated termination]:
5) Christian's comments [end of April]
6) Florian's and Leon's comments [preferably at the beginning of May]
7) Consensus meeting to define the *German* version [preferably around May 15]
8) Again Michael's review [preferably end of May 15]
9) Translations into FR/EN/IT (my Mantis ticket 0008164: Translation of Terms of service and Privacy policy to German, French, Italian → 5.1 in the NGI TALER project work package 5) [preferably end of June]

Stefan

2024-04-15 14:26

developer   ~0022244

8) Again Michael's review [preferably end of May 15] --> should read [preferably end of May]

Christian Grothoff

2024-04-16 00:15

manager   ~0022256

Hi Stefan!

Bin die ganze AGB jetzt durch. Meine Vorschlaege sind alle mit CG markiert, haeufig Zustimmung zu deinen Aenderungen.

Bitte die Aenderungen wo wir ganz klar beide einverstanden sind durchziehen (inkl. *Loeschungen*, ist ja ein Git!) so das wirklich nur noch

1) Unklarheiten (meiner Kommentare) und
2) Differenzen (SK vs. CG nicht einverstanden) und
3) Probleme (wo du nicht sicher bist, wie der Text formuliert werden koennte, auch wenn 1&2 nicht zutreffen)

als Kommentare uebrigbleiben.

Danke!

Stefan

2024-04-16 11:05

developer   ~0022260

For those folks who want to see CG's changes and comments committed to the git in web view:
https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=09e315eedb73adc9fa7d11061728cd433bee9f31

Stefan

2024-05-06 09:37

developer   ~0022356

Mit https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=edacdf609bac2739811d6cd33ca1cbafd0f7573a erfolgte die Reduzierung auf die noch offenen ungeklärten bzw. konfligierenden Punkte (8 an der Zahl). Meine Eingaben stehen zwischen den Klammern [KOMMENTAR SK], leider kommt es zu einer unzusammenhängenden Darstellung der Änderungen, daher bitte immer etwas weiter nach unten scrollen, wo der zugehörige Text steht.

Damit übergebe ich den AGB-Entwurf wieder an Christian (@grothoff) zur weiteren Diskussion. Nach erfolgter Einigung sind dann Leon und Florian mit ihrer Lektüre und ggf. Änderungen dran. Ein Konsens sollte Mitte Mai getroffen werden, ein weiterer Review geschieht durch Michael vorzugsweise bis Ende Mai.

Alle Änderungen im Git sind nachvollziehbar (siehe https://bugs.gnunet.org/view.php?id=8163#c22242). Den Überblick über alles behalte ich.

Stefan

2024-05-06 13:25

developer   ~0022359

https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=584ccce5043d20662c32fa306f465ae9df3cfa72 added again the context to the eight points for discussion.

Stefan

2024-05-10 07:33

developer   ~0022380

https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=ab46734078f454bb88f01020d1e141281ce6d893 changes some sub-section headers resp. sub-sub-section headers and settles most conflicting points. Still, the term "Zahldienstleistungen" in the sub-section header '1.2. Zugang zu den TALER Zahldienstleistungen' needs to be discussed. It's either "Zahlungsdienstleistungen" or - more generalized - "Dienstleistungen".

The NEXT step is to have the full Terms of service again in the git. This will be the completely rectified and orthographically correct version displaying the full content.

We have to be consistent with RST tags, please:

HEADER
=======

1. Section
-------------

1.1. Sub-section
~~~~~~~~~~~~

1.1.1 Sub-sub-section
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As we have sub-sub-sections only under points 1.4 and 1.12 we can use tildes there - but not dashes as they are reserved for sub-section headers only. See https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/user/rst/quickstart.html for RST conventions.

Stefan

2024-05-14 10:38

developer   ~0022414

The full version of TOPS Terms of service is again in the git. Should be free of mistakes and typos. After review by CG the document passes on to Florian and Leon, after their comments to Michael (in plain text format as agreed upon).

Stefan

2024-05-14 10:45

developer   ~0022416

For those who want to see latest changes in the ToS full version committed to the git in web view:
https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=8cd53161c32b488d542f796d5dd1b8d4f9a03cc6

Stefan

2024-05-17 09:02

developer   ~0022437

My latest changes (see https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=8e80876aee11fbbd197c2959731e88fc8d2b5f20 for web view):
- corrected typos and grammar
- eliminated double spaces
- deprecated spaces at the end of each line (which is the normal editor behavior, hopefully this will also fulfill the RST convention...)
- changed tildes to hyphens for marking headers of sections
- changed 'P2P' to 'Peer-to-Peer'
- accepted the term 'e-CHF' (although I recommend the better looking 'eCHF' - is this to be discussed yet?)
- inserted "auch" in the phrase "TOPS kann weitere Aufladeoptionen einführen oder *auch* bestehende Mechanismen nicht mehr anbieten." and changed "Ladung" to "Aufladung" in the next phrase
- inserted the word "fehlerhaften" in the phrase "Nutzer halten TOPS schadlos für Schäden oder Verluste, die TOPS aufgrund der Nichteinhaltung dieser AGB oder gesetzlicher Vorgaben, aufgrund fehlerhafter oder unvollständiger Angaben der Nutzer oder der *fehlerhaften* Ausführung von Anweisungen entstehen."
- inserted "in der Schweiz" in the phrase "Die Nutzer von Taler-Wallets können das Guthaben in diesen jederzeit an Bankkonten *in der Schweiz* zurücküberweisen lassen und so das Guthaben saldieren."
- My comment on "(Wobei Nutzer bzw. Begünstigte mit einem Wohnsitz ausserhalb der Schweiz bereits gegen diese AGB verstossen, da TOPS seine Dienste nur für Schweizer Einwohner und Firmen anbietet.): Swiss citizens can additionally have a place of residence abroad, like e.g. in Liechtenstein, but we would like to have potential disputes settled rather in Biel than elsewhere, right?

- the first line of the Terms of service reads now: "Diese Allgemeinen Geschäftsbedingungen (nachfolgend **AGB**) der Taler Operations AG regeln die Rechte und Pflichten von Nutzern und Zahlungsempfängern (Begünstigten) des angebotenen Zahlungsdiensts."

The expression "Korrekte Taler-Wallets" is still to be discussed. What does that mean that a wallet is "correct"? Correctly installed, maintained or updated, working, functioning...? Is there a possibility of an incorrect, corrupt or not properly installed Taler wallet?

(For those who want to see Christian's former changes in the ToS full version: https://git.taler.net/exchange.git/commit/?id=e1be22a63d631dbe63057d219b1d28c4a9163226)

Christian Grothoff

2024-05-25 23:59

manager   ~0022469

Text is AFAIK with Florian & Leon for review at this point.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2024-01-21 15:12 Stefan New Issue
2024-01-21 15:12 Stefan Status new => assigned
2024-01-21 15:12 Stefan Assigned To => Stefan
2024-01-21 15:38 Christian Grothoff Relationship added child of 0008164
2024-01-21 15:42 Christian Grothoff Severity major => text
2024-02-11 12:41 Stefan Summary Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) => Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [March-April]
2024-02-11 12:41 Stefan Description Updated
2024-03-03 10:22 Stefan Note Added: 0021621
2024-04-02 19:22 Stefan Note Added: 0022087
2024-04-02 21:09 Stefan Note Added: 0022088
2024-04-02 21:11 Stefan Note Added: 0022089
2024-04-10 21:50 Stefan Note Added: 0022199
2024-04-11 09:16 Stefan Note Added: 0022206
2024-04-15 13:44 Stefan Note Added: 0022241
2024-04-15 14:04 Stefan Note Added: 0022242
2024-04-15 14:26 Stefan Note Added: 0022244
2024-04-15 14:27 Stefan Summary Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [March-April] => Terms of service and Privacy policy (NetzBon and Swiss sandbox implementation/Taler Operations AG) [end of May]
2024-04-15 14:32 Stefan Note Edited: 0022242
2024-04-15 19:21 Stefan Assigned To Stefan => Christian Grothoff
2024-04-16 00:15 Christian Grothoff Note Added: 0022256
2024-04-16 00:15 Christian Grothoff Assigned To Christian Grothoff => Stefan
2024-04-16 11:05 Stefan Note Added: 0022260
2024-05-06 09:37 Stefan Note Added: 0022356
2024-05-06 09:38 Stefan Assigned To Stefan => Christian Grothoff
2024-05-06 13:25 Stefan Note Added: 0022359
2024-05-10 07:33 Stefan Note Added: 0022380
2024-05-14 10:38 Stefan Note Added: 0022414
2024-05-14 10:45 Stefan Note Added: 0022416
2024-05-17 09:02 Stefan Note Added: 0022437
2024-05-25 23:59 Christian Grothoff Assigned To Christian Grothoff => Florian Dold
2024-05-25 23:59 Christian Grothoff Note Added: 0022469